Comments on: More on Torture http://www.scohen.org/scohen/2006/09/20/more-on-torture/ This is the web site of Steve Cohen, programmer, motorcyclist, kayaker and all around geek Wed, 19 Nov 2008 01:29:00 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: torturefan http://www.scohen.org/scohen/2006/09/20/more-on-torture/#comment-10008 torturefan Sun, 04 Mar 2007 00:25:57 +0000 http://www.scohen.org/scohen/archives/2006/09/20/more-on-torture/#comment-10008 I know I would enjoy the "sheer sadistic elation you feel as you strap electrodes to their testicles" I think a lot of guys would enjoy that!<!-- X-spaminator-passed: IP check --><!-- X-spaminator-passed: email check --><!-- X-spaminator-passed: author check --><!-- X-spaminator-strike: empty field - author url, 1 --><!-- X-spaminator-passed: author url --><!-- X-spaminator-passed: comment body --> I know I would enjoy the “sheer sadistic elation you feel as you strap electrodes to their testicles”

I think a lot of guys would enjoy that!

]]> By: scohen http://www.scohen.org/scohen/2006/09/20/more-on-torture/#comment-4395 scohen Mon, 06 Nov 2006 22:22:37 +0000 http://www.scohen.org/scohen/archives/2006/09/20/more-on-torture/#comment-4395 Select Image/Images by clicking on them. Right click. Select 'Edit Properties'. Click on rotate buttons till the image looks correct.<!-- X-spaminator-strike: whitelist, -3 --><!-- X-spaminator-passed: IP check --><!-- X-spaminator-passed: email check --><!-- X-spaminator-passed: author url --><!-- X-spaminator-passed: comment body --> Select Image/Images by clicking on them. Right click. Select ‘Edit Properties’. Click on rotate buttons till the image looks correct.

]]> By: Scrape http://www.scohen.org/scohen/2006/09/20/more-on-torture/#comment-4329 Scrape Fri, 03 Nov 2006 22:25:55 +0000 http://www.scohen.org/scohen/archives/2006/09/20/more-on-torture/#comment-4329 Incidentally, I think I called you "Scott" on another post. Got it in my nugget somehow that was your name. Oops. Sorry. Which reminds me... so... can I rotate images in the current jUploadr? Hehe. My ulterior motive. And of course, morality and justice should be applied evenly. This is not to say I don't believe that some forms of discrimination are viable (eg a Christian bookstore owner should be able to bar hiring of an atheist, for example), but rather that all men are created in the image of God, whether they perceive that image on themselves or not, and thus are entitled to various aspects of protection of that image. So, you don't kick a Palestinian family out of their house just because it's in Israel (ditto an Israeli family... so it's just all messed up over there for the long run), and if you believe it's right not to search/seize an American citizen without warrant, then that right applies across the board. The only difference is, we obviously can enforce such conduct when it's some other nation doing the searching/seizing on a non-US citizen. Anyhow. I digress. Image rotation in jUploadr? :-)<!-- X-spaminator-strike: whitelist, -3 --><!-- X-spaminator-passed: IP check --><!-- X-spaminator-passed: email check --><!-- X-spaminator-passed: author url --><!-- X-spaminator-passed: comment body --><!-- X-spaminator-strike: url dashes, 1 --> Incidentally, I think I called you “Scott” on another post. Got it in my nugget somehow that was your name. Oops. Sorry.

Which reminds me… so… can I rotate images in the current jUploadr? Hehe. My ulterior motive.

And of course, morality and justice should be applied evenly. This is not to say I don’t believe that some forms of discrimination are viable (eg a Christian bookstore owner should be able to bar hiring of an atheist, for example), but rather that all men are created in the image of God, whether they perceive that image on themselves or not, and thus are entitled to various aspects of protection of that image. So, you don’t kick a Palestinian family out of their house just because it’s in Israel (ditto an Israeli family… so it’s just all messed up over there for the long run), and if you believe it’s right not to search/seize an American citizen without warrant, then that right applies across the board. The only difference is, we obviously can enforce such conduct when it’s some other nation doing the searching/seizing on a non-US citizen.

Anyhow. I digress. Image rotation in jUploadr? :-)

]]> By: scohen http://www.scohen.org/scohen/2006/09/20/more-on-torture/#comment-4300 scohen Thu, 02 Nov 2006 21:53:44 +0000 http://www.scohen.org/scohen/archives/2006/09/20/more-on-torture/#comment-4300 Scrape, Thank you for understanding my point. I'm a big fan of the Constitution, and believe those are the values that we should apply to everyone, but it's clear that you get that. My beef isn't with Christians per se, but those Christians who basically reject Jesus's teachings about love, caring and humility. Some might even say those Christians are missing the point. I know I would.<!-- X-spaminator-strike: whitelist, -3 --><!-- X-spaminator-passed: IP check --><!-- X-spaminator-passed: email check --><!-- X-spaminator-passed: author url --><!-- X-spaminator-passed: comment body --> Scrape,
Thank you for understanding my point. I’m a big fan of the Constitution, and believe those are the values that we should apply to everyone, but it’s clear that you get that. My beef isn’t with Christians per se, but those Christians who basically reject Jesus’s teachings about love, caring and humility. Some might even say those Christians are missing the point.

I know I would.

]]> By: Scrape http://www.scohen.org/scohen/2006/09/20/more-on-torture/#comment-4270 Scrape Wed, 01 Nov 2006 23:12:18 +0000 http://www.scohen.org/scohen/archives/2006/09/20/more-on-torture/#comment-4270 While it is the case that the US Constitution only applies specifically to US citizens or those residing therein, nonetheless it codifies a set of principles that we believe are -right-... that's why they're there. If they are morally right for us, then they're morally right for others; others simply don't live in this country. Nonetheless, as is implied ultimately by scohen's comments, it is -right- thus to apply Constitutional principles to those who are not necessarily of our country or in our country, but come to be under our control/jurisdiction, if you will. A Christian perspective would be to consider that Israel was to have one law for the both the native and the foreigner... justice is no respecter of persons. (Admittedly, I fear that a fellow Christian, probably of the Dispensational sort, will now point out that Israel executed divinely appointed warfare against quite a few foreigners. The correlation, however, requires a bit more discussion, with Israel/the Promised Land now rightly understood to refer to the Church.) Unlikely that I agree with scohen on everything... just hoping to help people realize that, while Christianity will always be foolishness to those who don't believe (as Paul says), there are some things that are foolishness to -everyone-, and it's unsatisfactory for Christians to support such. (Ech, that was poorly worded.)<!-- X-spaminator-strike: whitelist, -3 --><!-- X-spaminator-passed: IP check --><!-- X-spaminator-passed: email check --><!-- X-spaminator-passed: author url --><!-- X-spaminator-passed: comment body --> While it is the case that the US Constitution only applies specifically to US citizens or those residing therein, nonetheless it codifies a set of principles that we believe are -right-… that’s why they’re there. If they are morally right for us, then they’re morally right for others; others simply don’t live in this country. Nonetheless, as is implied ultimately by scohen’s comments, it is -right- thus to apply Constitutional principles to those who are not necessarily of our country or in our country, but come to be under our control/jurisdiction, if you will. A Christian perspective would be to consider that Israel was to have one law for the both the native and the foreigner… justice is no respecter of persons.

(Admittedly, I fear that a fellow Christian, probably of the Dispensational sort, will now point out that Israel executed divinely appointed warfare against quite a few foreigners. The correlation, however, requires a bit more discussion, with Israel/the Promised Land now rightly understood to refer to the Church.)

Unlikely that I agree with scohen on everything… just hoping to help people realize that, while Christianity will always be foolishness to those who don’t believe (as Paul says), there are some things that are foolishness to -everyone-, and it’s unsatisfactory for Christians to support such. (Ech, that was poorly worded.)

]]> By: scohen http://www.scohen.org/scohen/2006/09/20/more-on-torture/#comment-3852 scohen Wed, 04 Oct 2006 18:20:30 +0000 http://www.scohen.org/scohen/archives/2006/09/20/more-on-torture/#comment-3852 Then educate me, don't just make a claim with no evidence.<!-- X-spaminator-strike: whitelist, -3 --><!-- X-spaminator-passed: IP check --><!-- X-spaminator-passed: email check --><!-- X-spaminator-passed: author url --><!-- X-spaminator-passed: comment body --> Then educate me, don’t just make a claim with no evidence.

]]> By: Chris http://www.scohen.org/scohen/2006/09/20/more-on-torture/#comment-3846 Chris Tue, 03 Oct 2006 04:42:24 +0000 http://www.scohen.org/scohen/archives/2006/09/20/more-on-torture/#comment-3846 You grossly misunderstand constitutional law...<!-- X-spaminator-passed: IP check --><!-- X-spaminator-passed: email check --><!-- X-spaminator-passed: author check --><!-- X-spaminator-strike: empty field - author url, 1 --><!-- X-spaminator-passed: author url --><!-- X-spaminator-passed: comment body --> You grossly misunderstand constitutional law…

]]> By: scohen http://www.scohen.org/scohen/2006/09/20/more-on-torture/#comment-3835 scohen Sat, 30 Sep 2006 16:31:14 +0000 http://www.scohen.org/scohen/archives/2006/09/20/more-on-torture/#comment-3835 Nice post timmy, I especially like how you didn't use the quote I used when I wrote this entry. You said, "Torture for information is never wrong" Which means <ul> <li>You agree with torture</li> <li>You thing it is justified when used to extract information</li> <li>You support its use</li> </ul> And you go on and say that our specific techniques aren't torture. Notice how I didn't say anything about them in this post, and how I was attacking your blanket assertion that torture for information is NEVER WRONG.<!-- X-spaminator-strike: whitelist, -3 --><!-- X-spaminator-passed: IP check --><!-- X-spaminator-passed: email check --><!-- X-spaminator-passed: author url --><!-- X-spaminator-passed: comment body --> Nice post timmy, I especially like how you didn’t use the quote I used when I wrote this entry.

You said,
“Torture for information is never wrong”

Which means

  • You agree with torture
  • You thing it is justified when used to extract information
  • You support its use

And you go on and say that our specific techniques aren’t torture. Notice how I didn’t say anything about them in this post, and how I was attacking your blanket assertion that torture for information is NEVER WRONG.

]]> By: Christ Matters: Politics That Matter To Him » Gospel According To Scohen:Terrorists Are More Important Than Your Family http://www.scohen.org/scohen/2006/09/20/more-on-torture/#comment-3834 Christ Matters: Politics That Matter To Him » Gospel According To Scohen:Terrorists Are More Important Than Your Family Sat, 30 Sep 2006 04:14:25 +0000 http://www.scohen.org/scohen/archives/2006/09/20/more-on-torture/#comment-3834 [...] Latest spew from scohen: So, aside from torturing people for the sheer sadistic elation you feel as you strap electrodes to their testicles, it’s perfectly fine for the US government to torture people as long as they do it to obtain information. What I think Tim is forgetting in this equation is a little document written around 230 years ago, that has this little tidbit: [...]<!-- X-spaminator-strike: bad referer - spambot?, 3 --><!-- X-spaminator-passed: IP check --><!-- X-spaminator-passed: email check --><!-- X-spaminator-passed: author check --><!-- X-spaminator-passed: author url --><!-- X-spaminator-passed: comment body --> [...] Latest spew from scohen: So, aside from torturing people for the sheer sadistic elation you feel as you strap electrodes to their testicles, it’s perfectly fine for the US government to torture people as long as they do it to obtain information. What I think Tim is forgetting in this equation is a little document written around 230 years ago, that has this little tidbit: [...]

]]> By: Dad http://www.scohen.org/scohen/2006/09/20/more-on-torture/#comment-3801 Dad Fri, 22 Sep 2006 13:23:40 +0000 http://www.scohen.org/scohen/archives/2006/09/20/more-on-torture/#comment-3801 Nicely put. <!-- X-spaminator-strike: whitelist, -3 --><!-- X-spaminator-passed: IP check --><!-- X-spaminator-passed: email check --><!-- X-spaminator-strike: empty field - author url, 1 --><!-- X-spaminator-passed: author url --><!-- X-spaminator-passed: comment body --> Nicely put.

]]>