I’m a glutton for punishment.
I’ve been reading our creationist friend’s blog and I saw this.
It actually sounded nice until the last couple paragraphs, but then I realized that there were some really bad misconceptions (imagine that?!?). First off, why should only San Francisco proper join this great new country? Is the rest of the Bay Area not liberal enough for inclusion? Secondly, and more egregiously, liberals don’t work?
I’d like to see Radar actually cite examples here, which I know will be a huge challenge for him, considering the tenuous relationship he has with actual facts. I challenge him to find a red state that can match the output of California or New York. Texas has money literally coming out of the ground, and they can’t touch us. According to the The bureau of Economic Analysis our GSP is 1.8 times that of Texas ($1.5 trillion to $885 billion). We might not get to work until 10:00, but we work damn hard, and get shit done. Heard of Google? Yahoo? Apple? Fuck, you heard of the Computer Industry? All from California. That blog contraption you’re posting on? California. All of the food that goes into your right-wing young-earth creationist mouth is paid for with money which is a direct result of some dirty hippies from the Bay area who just sat around 30 years ago smoking weed and accidentally created an entire new economic ecosystem. I’m sure if California didn’t create the whole damn computer industry, Indiana would have stepped up and done so –except it’d be corn based.
I also really admire his anecdote from San Francisco. First off, the ‘gay section’ is called The Castro, you ignorant troglodyte, and I’ve walked down it many a time with nary a word said. I’m going to wager that you weren’t exactly ‘minding your own business either’. I’m so sure a right wing nut job would just be wandering around the Castro ‘minding his own business’. Admit it, you were looking for a leather daddy and couldn’t find any takers, then you got pissed. That’s always the story with homophobes like you.
Now, I’ve read Radar’s blog, and I’m familiar with his style of argument, but I’ve anticipated it. So let me retort before he even starts the rusty cogs that pass for a brain in that monstrously over sized drool-box he calls a head.
First, you’ll say that I’m not fit to judge the Midwest because I don’t understand it. Radar, I can judge the Midwest because I’ve lived there almost all of my life, and you know something? It really sucks. First off, your state –hell, pretty much every state west of Pennsylvania– is flat and boring. Ansel Adams did not travel to Indiana to take life-affirming pictures of your landscape. He did, however take some quite lovely pictures of my adopted state. Hell, he even took a photo of the city you love to hate. That is, of course, before he was killed and eaten by the indigenous hippy population in a tragic case of the munchies. The other problem with the Midwest is that people like you are driving away all the smart people. There’s a reason they call it the rust belt and why the population has been declining these past 20 years. It’s no fun at all to be called into your boss’s office and have to debate evolution ad nauseum. If you don’t believe in it, that’s great. Believe that the world was created by God or Vishnu or Allah or even Rifle Jesus, but keep quiet about it. You work as a computer security expert, which means you have absolutely no qualifications to debate evolution with any lucidity or insight. Your arguments are not compelling, they’re not insightful, and they’re not even original. At the very least, be original; claim evolution is incorrect because humans don’t retain the poop-flinging gene that chimpanzees obviously posses. Everyone knows how useful poop-flinging can be in today’s society.
Let me relate a story to you: There was a cryptographer who had a friend that fancied himself to be a cryptographer, and was always coming up with encryption algorithms. Every time he came up with a new one, he’d give it to his friend, who would come back with a reason why it was not secure. Invariably, the Cryptographer got tired of this, and when his friend came to him with yet another algorithm, he told him why it wouldn’t work, and gave him an envelope. “Inside the envelope are three additional reasons why your algorithm isn’t secure.” said the Cryptographer, “Don’t open open it until you have figured out what they are.”. His friend never returned.
So it is with you and evolution. You have stated in your blog that while in college you “read voraciously on evolution and fossil-related subjects”, yet you fail to understand evolution in even the most trivial way. You don’t even know the difference between evolution, cosmology and bio-genesis, which are totally separate fields. Cosmology, for instance isn’t even a biological science –it straddles Physics and Astronomy. You post daily about evolution and repeat the same tired misconceptions that are pervasive in the creationist community. So, in that spirit, I’m going to name five things wrong with your young earth creationist hypothesis. I’m not going to give you an envelope, but just know that it would be so large, I’d probably have to use one of those envelopes that Publisher’s Clearing House leaves their giant checks in if you’re not home.
- Given that the speed of light is constant, explain why we can see galaxies that are billions of light-years away. This means that the light we are seeing is billions of years old. As of this post, the furthest galaxy is 13.2 BILLION light-years away.
In effect, looking at this light is like looking back in time, and we can see the universe forming. Did God create all this light just to deceive us? Note, “God works in mysterious ways” is not an answer that is valid. - Hindu culture and religion have texts that date back 10,000 years, easily old enough to document the biblical flood, yet they mention no such event. Did they just not notice that they were buried under a deluge for a year, or were they the first culture to develop SCUBA technology?
- The sun has consumed about 50% of its fuel. This used to be a win for young earth creationists like yourself –when we thought the sun was on fire. Back then, doing the simple equation for combustion would fix the sun’s age at 5000 years. However, since fusion is much more efficient than combustion, the sun’s age is now estimated at 4.5 billion years. Do you believe the sun is on fire, or that modern physics is wrong?
- Most of the DNA in our bodies doesn’t code for anything. It’s junk left over from millions of years of evolution. If we were all created by god, why do we have all this junk? Is god a sloppy engineer? Why does the theory of evolution predict this junk DNA even though it was created before DNA was even discovered? Why does your idea of creation give no insight in to this matter?
- Explain exactly how a worldwide deluge could possibly carve the grand canyon in under a year.
I know that you will never actually try to answer any of these questions in an honest manner, because frankly, the only conclusion you could possibly reach is that we live in an incredibly old universe and that the theory of evolution has many stunning insights into modern genetics and creation is merely a belief that gives us no additional information. Instead, you’ll probably harp on a small error I have made in the above post, or accuse me of ad hominem attacks, when in fact none have been made. Astute readers note that while I have called Radar a troglodyte, I did not say his arguments were wrong because he was a troglodyte . You’ll probably retreat back to your comfort zone of parroting arguments that have been made over and over by intellectually dishonest people that are trying to remove your ability to critically analyze your religion’s dogma. These people have a vested interest in keeping you fat and dumb. But maybe, just maybe you’ll see how your ideas are really childish and don’t help our society progress. You’ll see that creationism does nothing to further our understanding of ourselves or the universe, and is morally bankrupt, and you’ll come around and see that this country was made great by our quest for knowledge. Maybe you’ll give up on your quest to force religion down our throats and instead work to further science education in this country. Maybe you will.
But then again, I am a Liberal.
March 20th, 2006 at 8:00 pm
trogolodyte? How thoughtful of you. But then again, you are a liberal. Having read your post, your acquaintance with facts is rather modest. Nice of you to easily diss and dismiss my state. I will admit it has been a long time since I’ve seen people with beards wearing spangles in their hair, cocktail dresses and heels. Yep, since the last time I was in the City. Castro or Casto, the song remains the same. The rest of the country logs into Zombie Nation to gape at the ludicrous crews that march down your streets. Nice!
Hey, California? Nice job with the dot.coms! Don’t break your arms patting yourselves on the back.
I fail to understand evolution in the most ignorant way? I wonder if you could actually converse about the subject. You probably only know what you have been fed and doubtlessly have never actually STUDIED the subject! Pablum for the liberal masses = stuck on stupid. Your five reasons aren’t even a challenge. Fortunately, there are intelligent evolutionists who post on my site that actually present a challenge.
Go sign a petition to impeach Bush, log into the Democratic Underground, and enjoy! No one is going to force religion down your throat, you have to choose it and for now it looks like you are a lo-o-o-o-o-o-o-ong way away from that possibility.
Hey, that was fun! Did you like getting a response in kind? Hope so!
March 21st, 2006 at 8:01 am
Radar,
That’s exactly what I expected from you. You have been doing the same thing to the people on your site for some time now. You have not refuted a single claim that I have made just like you have not refuted a single one of their claims.
You’ve also misquoted me, which is impressive since the quote was less than 500 pixels above the comment box. I never said you “understand evolution in the most ignorant way” instead, I said “yet you fail to understand evolution in even the most trivial way”, and your response confirms that. Also, “Your five reasons aren’t even a challenge” is cute, since you haven’t even answered a single one of them in a complete or honest fashion. You also failed to catch the point I was making. The five things I posted aren’t even the tip of the iceberg of the crazy things you have to believe it to make our observations comport with a universe that is ~6000 years old.
…and I have studied evolution. I was a microbiology major before I switched to computer science, and we dealt with it quite a lot. In fact, the entire field of biology fails to make a modicum of sense without the context of evolution.
Furthermore, I really appreciate your pro-bush rhetoric and your jingoistic phrases –stuck on stupid is really a great one; who needs reason and logic when you can spout a little catch phrase? Did I even mention politics in my post? Why did you bring it up? Oh right, you want to make fun of where I live.
I’ve read your comments for three weeks and I wasn’t going to post this, but I changed my mind after you refuse to honestly answer completely fair questions posed to you about your (mis)understanding of several scientific concepts like the 2nd law of thermodymanics.
Your problem is you don’t argue fairly.
… and for pete’s sake, it’s spelled troglodyte.
March 22nd, 2006 at 7:49 am
Steve,
You know a fool with an opinion is a little like the mule with a spinning wheel. No-one knows how he got it and danged if he knows how to use it!
I’ll need to clearly express who the fool here is (Radar) lest his plethora of opinions cast my (mis)quote in the wrong light. Radar will always downshift to opinion and ad hominum because facts get in the way of faith. So on a logical level, you are wasting your time.
Fun reading though!
–Thummp
March 22nd, 2006 at 8:29 am
I don’t think that’s a mis-quote, IIRC that was Lyle Langley of Springfield Monorail fame. I actually found his use of ad-hominem attacks amusing, since it’s basically what I predicted and he is very quick to point out even the appearance of an ad-hominem when it is made against him.
Right now, there’s some capitulation on his blog. They’re discussing prog rock, and there seems to be more agreement on that than on evolution. I even got a compliment on my guitar playing.
March 23rd, 2006 at 5:04 am
Steve-o, I usually find your blog a nice little diversion for killing a few minutes in study hall, and many of the links are pretty interesting too. But man, how can you subject yourself to the punishment of Radar’s blog? Reading few a few posts and comments gave me blog-rage. I may have to start finding time to reply there…
March 23rd, 2006 at 6:47 am
Mike,
Knock yourself out, but remember: You’re as likely to convince him that the universe is old as he is likely to convince you that it’s not.
However, I couldn’t let the homophobic comments go unpunished. Guess I got a little wrapped up in things. I’ve gotten quite attached to this area, and I find it sad that people like him espouse gross cariacatures of what living here is actually like.
Too bad for him, I guess.
March 23rd, 2006 at 11:18 am
WOW…. This is my son. It is hard to have a conversation with someone who refuses to look at science as factual. Science for them destroys their religion therefore the arguments don’t make real sense. The only recourse is to attack the person which radar did ( and I might say poorly ).Keep up the fight.
March 24th, 2006 at 6:26 pm
Damn! remind me never to piss you off . . .
[sound of a number of over-sugared 5 year olds yelling 'smackdown! smackdown smackdown!]
I’m really starting to think the future may look like a sherri s. tepper novel . . .
March 25th, 2006 at 11:19 am
At the very least, be original; claim evolution is incorrect because humans don’t retain the poop-flinging gene that chimpanzees obviously posses. Everyone knows how useful poop-flinging can be in today’s society.
Who says we didn’t retain the poo-flinging gene?
March 25th, 2006 at 2:32 pm
I don’t know… maybe some of us did